14.04.2005, 21:35
BoxingInsider.com: We’re here with Ken Shamrock to talk about some of the fights on this weekend’s UFC 52 card. Ken, first off, let’s talk about Travis Lutter and Matt Lindland. What do you think of this fight?
Ken Shamrock: Travis will smoke him. There’s no question that this one will end up on the ground and Matt Lindland is going to be in for a world of hurt.
BoxingInsider.com: Despite Matt’s wrestling background, you think Travis will be able to overcome that with his own grappling skills and submissions?
Ken Shamrock: Hey, listen, the only chance that Lindland has is if he let’s his hands go and disrupts Travis’ game on the ground. And he’d have to be really busy or land a lucky punch and knock him out. But if it goes to the ground, Travis will work him.
BoxingInsider.com: So, obviously, you believe Travis is the superior grappler?
Ken Shamrock: Absolutely. When it comes to submission game on the ground, Matt Lindland and Travis don’t match up well.
BoxingInsider.com: We’ve got a couple of title fights on this card. Frank Trigg is rematching with Matt Hughes hoping to exact some revenge and take Matt’s title. What do you think Frank needs to do to be successful against Matt this time?
Ken Shamrock: Well, last time he made a mistake. He got loose with Matt, they were switching back and forth, and he got into a wrestling match and forgot that Matt could choke him. They got into the reversals and it was back and forth… it was a very technical fight there for a short period of time and he forgot about the submissions and then Matt caught him with the rear naked choke. Once Matt gets it, he isn’t letting go.
I think this time [Frank] is going to be a little smarter, he’s going to go out there like he did against that last kid that he fought and just start throwing. He’ll try and stay in good position and just try to bang Matt out.
BoxingInsider.com: Do you think that is a successful formula for beating Matt Hughes, to take the game to him and really set the pace of the fight?
Ken Shamrock: Yeah, Matt is pound for pound one of the best fighters out there. When he fought BJ, he made the mistake of not taking the fight to BJ. BJ came and took it to him, he ended up on the ground trying to play the jiujitsu game against a very, very good jiujitsu guy and that was a mistake. I think Matt realized that after he got beat; I didn’t play my game, which is to take him down, get on him and punish him.
I think Matt is going to take Frank Trigg a little differently this time too. He definitely wants to put this kid away again. It’s going to be a very different fight for both of these guys.
BoxingInsider.com: So Frank probably needs to set the pace of the fight with his standup. Matt needs to get the fight to the mat where he can use his ground and pound abilities. Whose will do you think is going to rule in this fight?
Ken Shamrock: Matt. I think Matt is going to do that because he’s a world-class wrestler and he’s been in these situations and he knows what he has to do. Frank Trigg got into a fight his last fight and he almost got choked out and arm barred and knee barred and just made so many mistakes, this kid could just not capitalize on them. And credit to Frank, he stayed tough, but he’s going to need a lot more than tough to beat Matt.
BoxingInsider.com: Do you think that Matt is just too strong for Frank?
Ken Shamrock: Yeah, well, I think Frank is strong too. He proved it when he fought Matt the first time. They were just matching back and forth. The difference is that Frank makes a lot of mistakes. He made a lot of mistakes in his last fight and he got away with them. I don’t believe that he will get away with those mistakes if he makes them against Matt.
BoxingInsider.com: Moving on to the main event, we’ve got another rematch, Randy Couture versus Chuck Liddell 2. Randy was obviously dominant in their first fight. This time around, there’s been the build up from The Ultimate Fighter reality series, which featured you in the main event of the finals broadcast. With the possible carry over from the TV show, do you think that this is maybe the biggest marquee matchup that the UFC has had since Ken Shamrock vs. Tito Ortiz at UFC 40?
Ken Shamrock: Absolutely. When I did it, it was pay-per-view only. They’ve got a big opportunity hear with this free TV and they’ve got a lot of people watching it. So, the buy rates are definitely going to skyrocket because we had the finale, which leads into Chuck and Randy a week later. So, everything has been built for this pay-per-view to go huge. Randy and Chuck are in a very sweet spot because not only is The Ultimate Fighter building this fight, but also Ken Shamrock is building this fight. All of this leads up to the pay-per-view for them.
BoxingInsider.com: So, have you given Randy and Chuck a hard time about how easy they’ve got it coming off of the finale of The Ultimate Fighter to draw pay-per-view numbers when you had to go around and drum up support from every type of media out there?
Ken Shamrock: [laughs] No, because they’ve done enough of that themselves also. They’ve been in some big fights and they’ve done media stuff, so they’ve definitely paid their dues. Fortunately for me, I started when the UFC first came out and there are a lot of die hard fans out there that still think that the old UFC fighters are the greatest things that lived. It’s great to have that.
BoxingInsider.com: Back to Randy and Chuck. Randy executed his game plan in the first fight, surprising some people, using his hands to set the pace of the fight. Most people thought that he would immediately try to take Chuck down.
Ken Shamrock: That’s the mistake that people make wanting to take Chuck down immediately. You’ve got to get in a firefight and get him to commit with his punches; that makes him easier to take down, whereas Tito did totally the opposite. He took a bunch of punches and then tried to shoot. If you’ve got a guy who is quick on his feet and has some good hands, he’s going to be gone before you get there. You’ve got to be able to throw and get your fists in there and get a firefight started and then go for the takedown.
BoxingInsider.com: Do you see this fight going any other way than it did the first time? Can Chuck change anything up in his game to make things turn out differently this time?
Ken Shamrock: There’s always that opportunity. I think Chuck is a smart fighter and he understands what he did wrong. He needs to come in and do a better job of sticking his punches out there and not being crowded by Randy. When Chuck fought him the first time, Randy kept coming forward and Chuck kept trying to throw those looping punches that he does. Randy was just throwing a straight jab and just walking straight into him, checking his punches. Chuck slowed down, Randy grabbed him, took him to the mat, and from there Randy imposed his will on him. It’s pretty difficult to land punches on a guy that is throwing straight jabs on you quickly and moving. You’ve got to bounce back and keep moving side to side and circle or you’re going to slow down. Randy had a good plan.
BoxingInsider.com: How does Chuck get the upper hand in this fight?
Ken Shamrock: He doesn’t need to worry about the takedown. I think that he’s going to have to make up his mind that he’s going to have to land some punches to back Randy up. And if he does shoot on you, he’s going to have to fight off the shot and get back to his feet. Then he’s going to have to move around and create openings by moving in different directions as Randy’s coming forward. He’s going to have to throw hard punches because he’s going to have to back Randy up or he’ll just keep coming. And if he keeps coming, he’s going to slow you down and take you down and doing the ground and pound. So, you have to land hard shots on him.
BoxingInsider.com: Do you think that Randy comes into this fight with the same strategy or do you think he’s going to change things up?
Ken Shamrock: No, he’s not going to change things man. Why fix something that isn’t broke? He dominated in the first fight. Chuck is going to have to really change his game around in order for him to be effective. Chuck’s very capable of doing that. If he can let his hands go and land a few kicks, he can make things happen. You’ve got to fight your game. [The first time], Chuck got taken out of his game because of Randy’s effectiveness.
BoxingInsider.com: Time to put you on the spot. Who wins the rematch?
Ken Shamrock: I couldn’t call this one because I know that Chuck is a smart fighter and that he’s capable of making the adjustments and doing what he needs to do to win the fight. And Randy comes with it every time. He’s very solid and knows what he has to do and he gets it done. If they both come out and execute their plans very well, it will be a tough one to judge.
Ken Shamrock: Travis will smoke him. There’s no question that this one will end up on the ground and Matt Lindland is going to be in for a world of hurt.
BoxingInsider.com: Despite Matt’s wrestling background, you think Travis will be able to overcome that with his own grappling skills and submissions?
Ken Shamrock: Hey, listen, the only chance that Lindland has is if he let’s his hands go and disrupts Travis’ game on the ground. And he’d have to be really busy or land a lucky punch and knock him out. But if it goes to the ground, Travis will work him.
BoxingInsider.com: So, obviously, you believe Travis is the superior grappler?
Ken Shamrock: Absolutely. When it comes to submission game on the ground, Matt Lindland and Travis don’t match up well.
BoxingInsider.com: We’ve got a couple of title fights on this card. Frank Trigg is rematching with Matt Hughes hoping to exact some revenge and take Matt’s title. What do you think Frank needs to do to be successful against Matt this time?
Ken Shamrock: Well, last time he made a mistake. He got loose with Matt, they were switching back and forth, and he got into a wrestling match and forgot that Matt could choke him. They got into the reversals and it was back and forth… it was a very technical fight there for a short period of time and he forgot about the submissions and then Matt caught him with the rear naked choke. Once Matt gets it, he isn’t letting go.
I think this time [Frank] is going to be a little smarter, he’s going to go out there like he did against that last kid that he fought and just start throwing. He’ll try and stay in good position and just try to bang Matt out.
BoxingInsider.com: Do you think that is a successful formula for beating Matt Hughes, to take the game to him and really set the pace of the fight?
Ken Shamrock: Yeah, Matt is pound for pound one of the best fighters out there. When he fought BJ, he made the mistake of not taking the fight to BJ. BJ came and took it to him, he ended up on the ground trying to play the jiujitsu game against a very, very good jiujitsu guy and that was a mistake. I think Matt realized that after he got beat; I didn’t play my game, which is to take him down, get on him and punish him.
I think Matt is going to take Frank Trigg a little differently this time too. He definitely wants to put this kid away again. It’s going to be a very different fight for both of these guys.
BoxingInsider.com: So Frank probably needs to set the pace of the fight with his standup. Matt needs to get the fight to the mat where he can use his ground and pound abilities. Whose will do you think is going to rule in this fight?
Ken Shamrock: Matt. I think Matt is going to do that because he’s a world-class wrestler and he’s been in these situations and he knows what he has to do. Frank Trigg got into a fight his last fight and he almost got choked out and arm barred and knee barred and just made so many mistakes, this kid could just not capitalize on them. And credit to Frank, he stayed tough, but he’s going to need a lot more than tough to beat Matt.
BoxingInsider.com: Do you think that Matt is just too strong for Frank?
Ken Shamrock: Yeah, well, I think Frank is strong too. He proved it when he fought Matt the first time. They were just matching back and forth. The difference is that Frank makes a lot of mistakes. He made a lot of mistakes in his last fight and he got away with them. I don’t believe that he will get away with those mistakes if he makes them against Matt.
BoxingInsider.com: Moving on to the main event, we’ve got another rematch, Randy Couture versus Chuck Liddell 2. Randy was obviously dominant in their first fight. This time around, there’s been the build up from The Ultimate Fighter reality series, which featured you in the main event of the finals broadcast. With the possible carry over from the TV show, do you think that this is maybe the biggest marquee matchup that the UFC has had since Ken Shamrock vs. Tito Ortiz at UFC 40?
Ken Shamrock: Absolutely. When I did it, it was pay-per-view only. They’ve got a big opportunity hear with this free TV and they’ve got a lot of people watching it. So, the buy rates are definitely going to skyrocket because we had the finale, which leads into Chuck and Randy a week later. So, everything has been built for this pay-per-view to go huge. Randy and Chuck are in a very sweet spot because not only is The Ultimate Fighter building this fight, but also Ken Shamrock is building this fight. All of this leads up to the pay-per-view for them.
BoxingInsider.com: So, have you given Randy and Chuck a hard time about how easy they’ve got it coming off of the finale of The Ultimate Fighter to draw pay-per-view numbers when you had to go around and drum up support from every type of media out there?
Ken Shamrock: [laughs] No, because they’ve done enough of that themselves also. They’ve been in some big fights and they’ve done media stuff, so they’ve definitely paid their dues. Fortunately for me, I started when the UFC first came out and there are a lot of die hard fans out there that still think that the old UFC fighters are the greatest things that lived. It’s great to have that.
BoxingInsider.com: Back to Randy and Chuck. Randy executed his game plan in the first fight, surprising some people, using his hands to set the pace of the fight. Most people thought that he would immediately try to take Chuck down.
Ken Shamrock: That’s the mistake that people make wanting to take Chuck down immediately. You’ve got to get in a firefight and get him to commit with his punches; that makes him easier to take down, whereas Tito did totally the opposite. He took a bunch of punches and then tried to shoot. If you’ve got a guy who is quick on his feet and has some good hands, he’s going to be gone before you get there. You’ve got to be able to throw and get your fists in there and get a firefight started and then go for the takedown.
BoxingInsider.com: Do you see this fight going any other way than it did the first time? Can Chuck change anything up in his game to make things turn out differently this time?
Ken Shamrock: There’s always that opportunity. I think Chuck is a smart fighter and he understands what he did wrong. He needs to come in and do a better job of sticking his punches out there and not being crowded by Randy. When Chuck fought him the first time, Randy kept coming forward and Chuck kept trying to throw those looping punches that he does. Randy was just throwing a straight jab and just walking straight into him, checking his punches. Chuck slowed down, Randy grabbed him, took him to the mat, and from there Randy imposed his will on him. It’s pretty difficult to land punches on a guy that is throwing straight jabs on you quickly and moving. You’ve got to bounce back and keep moving side to side and circle or you’re going to slow down. Randy had a good plan.
BoxingInsider.com: How does Chuck get the upper hand in this fight?
Ken Shamrock: He doesn’t need to worry about the takedown. I think that he’s going to have to make up his mind that he’s going to have to land some punches to back Randy up. And if he does shoot on you, he’s going to have to fight off the shot and get back to his feet. Then he’s going to have to move around and create openings by moving in different directions as Randy’s coming forward. He’s going to have to throw hard punches because he’s going to have to back Randy up or he’ll just keep coming. And if he keeps coming, he’s going to slow you down and take you down and doing the ground and pound. So, you have to land hard shots on him.
BoxingInsider.com: Do you think that Randy comes into this fight with the same strategy or do you think he’s going to change things up?
Ken Shamrock: No, he’s not going to change things man. Why fix something that isn’t broke? He dominated in the first fight. Chuck is going to have to really change his game around in order for him to be effective. Chuck’s very capable of doing that. If he can let his hands go and land a few kicks, he can make things happen. You’ve got to fight your game. [The first time], Chuck got taken out of his game because of Randy’s effectiveness.
BoxingInsider.com: Time to put you on the spot. Who wins the rematch?
Ken Shamrock: I couldn’t call this one because I know that Chuck is a smart fighter and that he’s capable of making the adjustments and doing what he needs to do to win the fight. And Randy comes with it every time. He’s very solid and knows what he has to do and he gets it done. If they both come out and execute their plans very well, it will be a tough one to judge.